This interview was given to the leading
radical left-wing magazine of Sweden, FiB, some time ago,
and here I offer easy answers to usual questions. Useful!
Question.
You claim that anti-semitism doesn’t exist today. Can you
explain what you mean by saying so?
Shamir:
Antisemitism
was a short-lived racial theory of late 19th century
claiming that - like zebras are what they are, jews are what
they are; that they possess some racial qualities making
them an inherent enemy of the Nordic race, like a wolf is an
enemy of a rabbit. This view was unknown previously, as the
Church and the Ulema thought that the problem between Jews
and Gentiles is a religious problem; conversion of a Jew
into Christianity or Islam removed the problem. The racial
view is quite out of fashion today; and I have never met a
person who would consider jews being some race apart,
dangerous to the rest.
Or, taking a less
learned approach, antisemitism is presented as 'hatred of
Jews for what they are'. Such a phenomenon vanished
completely. There are people who object to policies of Jews,
but none - to Jews per se.
That is why we can
say that antisemitism disappeared after a very short
shelf-life. Jews tend to use this word for perfectly
legitimate, nay, commendable objection to their policies;
for instance, to the policies of Israel etc, but then it is
just an offensive label.
Question: When you
say that antisemitism doesn't exist today you define
antisemitism as an old racial theory. Is it correct that you
define for example vandalism of Jewish graveyards and
private belongings for "objecting to policies of Jews". If
a young person with Jewish background living in Sweden
who is not engaged in politics is beaten up by neo nazis or
someone else. What do you call that? Doesn’t there
exist violence and hatred towards Jews based on the fact
that they are Jews, call it a race or call it an ethnicity
or religion. Would you still call this violence and hatred
"objecting to policies of Jews"?
Shamir:
Illegal and criminal acts are exactly that, and the
reasoning of the criminal is of little importance. Nobody is
allowed to vandalise cemeteries or beat up people, whether
they are Jews or not. Do you think if a goy is beaten up, or
a non-Jewish cemetery is vandalised - it is less grievous?
Take Jews off your mind. If an act is criminal - then it is
criminal, if it is not - then it is not criminal. There is
no reason to assume that jews are special; that a beaten up
Jew is a worse affront than a beaten up goy.
You've asked: "If a
young person with Jewish background living in Sweden who is
not engaged in politics is beaten up by neo nazis or someone
else. What do you call that? "
I am not sure such
events occur - more often than any sort of gang violence. In
France, Jewish militants beat up anti-Zionists quite often,
but I have not heard of non-fake case of French beating
Jews. In New York, Jewish Defence League beats and kills
goyim, and somehow nobody discusses 'Jewish hatred of Goy'.
Indeed, criminal behaviour of miscreants is not a reason to
build up case for 'antisemitism' or 'goy hatred' - police
should just attend to criminals.
You've asked: "Doesn’t there exist violence and hatred
towards Jews based on the fact that they are Jews, call it a
race or call it an ethnicity or religion." The answer is NO.
Not yet, but if good wishers would promote this idea ad
nauseam they may succeed :-)
As for hatred, it is
such a mother-in-lawish word:
"Son, I know you hate
me and want me dead!"
"No, mama, but I want
us to control our lives ourselves".
Question: Do you
believe that such a thing as a Jewish world conspiracy
exists. If so, what’s the aim of this conspiracy?
Shamir:
If the question is whether I believe in a millennia-old
secret plan carried out by some hidden Jewish leaders the
answer is no. Not many people do. Nor do I believe in
existence of a hidden Jewish world leadership activating a
single plan.
However, we may try
to deconstruct the question in order to find some other
levels to it.
If there were a
'Jewish plan' - would it mean that all the Jews belong to
the conspiracy? We use expressions "Sicilian mafia",
"Communist plan of world revolution", "American
imperialism", fully understanding that not every Sicilian,
not every Communist, not every American is a member of some
secretive body that tries to achieve this particular goal.
Equally, 'Jewish conspiracy' would imply that there are some
Jews who have certain plans.
'Conspiracy' is a
dirty word for undeclared goal in politics achieved by
obscure means. For instance, there was an American Cold-War
conspiracy (or 'plan') to get the USSR into Afghanistan in
1980. Please read the following except:
"How the US provoked
the Soviet Union into invading Afghanistan and starting the
whole mess"
Le Nouvel Observateur (France), Jan 15-21, 1998,
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates,
stated in his
memoirs [From the Shadows], that American intelligence
services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan six
months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you
were the national security adviser to President Carter. You
therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of
history, CIA aid to
the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the
Soviet army
invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, closely
guarded until
now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979
that President
Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the
opponents of the
pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a
note to the
president in which I explained to him that in my opinion
this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Question: Despite
this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But
perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and
looked to provoke it?
Brzezinski: It isn't
quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we
knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Question: When the
Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they
intended to fight against secret involvement of the United
States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However,
there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
Brzezinski: Regret
what? That secret operation was an excellent idea.
It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan
trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets
officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter,
in substance: We now have the opportunity of giving to the
USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow
had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a
conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally
the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Thus, conspiracies are a usual way of achieving some
political purposes. When we demystify the expression 'Jewish
conspiracy' in such a way, your question could be read: 'are
there some secret plans and strategies carried out by some
Jewish groups in their own interests'? Then. certainly, the
answer is Yes; neocons are a group of (predominantly) Jews
who plot and conspire for their own reasons; in the
Shadow of Zog I've described another hidden plan
carried out by some wealthy French Jews who wished to
influence French media. In Prince Charming I
present the Zionist conspiracy, which started with
Weitzman and others offering the support of Jews to Balfour
in exchange for the Declaration.
As for an "all-Jewish
world conspiracy", in my essay on the Protocols I
prove that the concept of 'Jewish conspiracy' is not needed
in order to understand Jewish influence. As a rule, Jews
seek to make things better for Jews - but it is not a
"conspiracy". There are non-conspiratorial actions which
influence the world affairs. There are many Jews in world
media; they have differing views, but they usually agree on
certain things, for instance, they try to spike unfavourable
to Jews news items. Majority of Jews are sympathetic to the
US, dislike Christianity, prefer multiculturalism, support
Israel - this is not a "conspiracy", but just their
preference.
Question:
You have a Jewish background and you lost family members
during the Nazi period. In what way does this affect your
view on Judaism and Christianity?
Shamir:
A man is influenced by his background. But the cult
of holocaust wasn't a part of my background, for I grew in
Soviet Russia. Every Russian family lost somebody at the
World War Two; so I did not feel my case a special one.
Question:
You have converted to Christianity. How does this fact
influence your view on Judaism?
Shamir:
In my view, Christianity is reformed, corrected Judaism,
ideologically and theologically in permanent tension towards
Rabbinic Judaism. I reject Judaism completely, and think it
is a dangerous and troublesome ideology.
Question:
In the present debate you are being accused of having
opinions similar to those of the nazis during the 1930’s:
i.e. there’s a Jewish conspiracy, the Jews govern the world
through controlling economy and moulding of public opinions.
What’s your comment to that?
Shamir:
My accusers do not mind to have the same opinion as George
Bush, Ariel Sharon or Abe Foxman, great warriors against "antisemitism".
In a way they are right - it does not matter who else has
similar ideas. Foxman is against antisemitism, but it is
still legitimate to be against antisemitism. Hitler was a
vegetarian, but it is still legitimate to avoid meat. Every
idea stands or falls at its own merit.
Question:
You have also been accused of having contacts with neo nazis
on the Internet. Your texts can be read on their web sites.
How do you comment on that?
Shamir:
My articles have appeared in the Israeli liberal daily
Haaretz which is running Judeo-Nazi materials, for
instance
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/489306.html
but somehow nobody objected to it...
Interview was
taken by Raja Bahari
The Swedish text on
http://www.fib.se/visa_info.asp?PostId=10&Avdelning=030&Sidrubrik=nr%2011/2004&e=e003
Responses:
From Jim Devlin
Shamir,
One of your simplest--therefore best--insights ever. The
truly profound observation tells us something we've always
almost known: As for hatred, it is
such a mother-in-lawish word
Jim Devlin
From Ian Buckley:
You've asked: "Doesn´t
there exist violence and hatred towards Jews based on the
fact that they are Jews, call it a race or call it an
ethnicity or religion." The answer is NO. Not yet, but if
good wishers would promote this idea ad nauseum they may
succeed :-)
Possibly you
are thinking of something like this vast collection:
http://antisemitism.tau.ac.il/CR.htm Here's
the Institute on Britain:
http://antisemitism.tau.ac.il/asw2006/uk.htm A
cast of hundreds from Yvonne Ridley to Baroness Tonge to
Galloway and Livingstone! Perhaps the most charitable thing
that can be said about the Stephen Roth Institute is that it
demonstrates extreme self-absorption, or self-obsession.
If the question is
whether I believe in a millennia-old secret plan carried out
by some hidden Jewish leaders the answer is no. Not many
people do. Nor do I believe in existence of a hidden Jewish
world leadership activating a single plan.
Correct..
grandiose, all-encompassing conspiracies are a product of
paranoia, not logic. Though maybe such paranoia is itself a
reflection of paranoia found elsewhere ;-) Nonetheless we
have Bilderberg, Hudson Institute, Kissinger, Perle etc
etc.. conspiratorial interactions, but not the big one.
There are many Jews
in world media; they have differing views, but they usually
agree on certain things, for instance, they try to spike
unfavourable to Jews news items.
Paid close
attention to the news bulletins here for any mention of the
British bomb disposal worker killed by a cluster bomb in
Lebanon today, but not a word - just as expected.
